Leanne Baker: Investing In Gold & Silver Mining Companies

Full Description and comments at: https://www.peakprosperity.com/podcast/108856/leanne-baker-investing-gold-silver-mining-companies

For precious metals investors looking to increase their exposure to this asset class beyond owning bullion or gold and silver ETFs, mining companies are a natural consideration. Their prices usually move much more dramatically in response to smaller price moves in the underlying metals they mine. In a bull market, it’s very possible for the share prices of these companies to increase by hundreds of percents within a year or two.

But there are a lot of gold and silver mining companies out there, many of which are small operators. Risk abounds in this sector. And for the past half-decade, most of these companies have been absolute widow-makers for investors. How do we identify which companies are worth considering and which should be avoided? How (if at all) should the small investor go about gaining exposure to precious metals mining companies?

To address this, Dr. Leanne Baker, former mining analyst at Solomon Smith Barney and current director of Agnico Eagle Mines Ltd, joins the podcast this week.

Welcome to crash concepts where the economy and environment are explored up next fresh ideas and insights into the factors that are driving the world it’s shaping your future presenting information you can’t afford to live without here’s Chris Martenson welcome to this Peak prosperity podcast I am your host Chris

Martenson it is may 9 2000 17 now as you know I’ve long advocated for physical gold and silver to be part of every investment portfolio and as you know at our web-site Peak prosperity we have Dave fair Texas precious metals daily market commentary and his weekly updates just a wonderful resource there for

People who are interested in precious metals now the reasons we advocate for precious metals really too numerous to go into here but they all have their headwaters in the fact that central banks are conducting the largest most dangerous and insane monetary experiments in all of human history and

Everything flows from there now today we’re going to talk about another way to invest in gold and silver and that’s through the mining shares now we’ve got a lot of interest in this at the site and so we’re going to be talking today with a leading expert who is going to

Help us understand gold mining companies because she understands them inside and out we’re talking today with dr. Leanne Baker PhD is an independent director of Ag Nicko Eagle mines limited is a consultant to and a board member of many metals and mining industry companies since 2002 she was the president and

Chief executive excuse me uh she is a consultant to and a board member of many metals and mining companies since 2002 and she has been the president and chief executive officer of Sutter gold mining that was from November 2011 to June 2013 previously dr. Baker was employed by

Salomon Smith Barney where she was one of the top-ranked mining sector equity analysts in the United States and dr. Baker is a graduate of the Colorado School of Mines holding both an MS and a PhD in mineral economics so LeeAnn thank you so much for joining us today and welcome to the program

Thank you very much Chris it’s a it’s a pleasure to be with you so let’s let’s start here from I guess from the outside in gold today is down again here on this particular day in May ninth of 2017 gold and silver both been getting hammered for a while in this

Last stretch of a number of weeks here why should people in your mind be holding or be interested in holding precious metals as part of their portfolios well as you alluded to in the introduction Chris I’ve um I’ve been focused on the precious metals market

For a long time and I really got my experience on the equity side during a decade when there was seemingly zero interest in the metals as an investment my first my first equity research piece was published in September 90s looked it up I was laying out some some bullish

Arguments then but clearly it took a while for the reality of the market to catch up with the fundamentals that were slowly but steadily improving during that decade so I have not only followed the companies I’ve invested in in gold I think I bought my first gold coins in in

The mid 90s and have just just kind of gone from there so for all the reasons that you allude to in your many pieces and you know that many of the experts that I follow do such a good job expounding on various websites gold I

Think is is a key part of most investors portfolios certainly anyone who has a significant amount of money that they’re trying to build for for retirement and and all of that so at this point you know I think you can look at gold as a trade I’ve never really

Done that I don’t do a lot of in and out trading just partly by the nature of you know my relationships with companies or long-term and so this years I hold our long-term I found that I’m not a very good short-term trader so the investments that I make I try I try to

Time the buy point well so that I I don’t feel too stressed out over the ins and outs of it but as we look at the market today Gold had you know has come down from the 2011 peek of what $1,900 on now down in in the low thousands and

You know it looks to me like we’re getting to a point technically where it either has to break a bit higher and start moving up again or we may have another leg lower and if we do have another leg lower that that would be an excellent entry point in my view for

People who don’t have the positions that they would like for the long term or who want to make who want to make a trade yeah I’m not a very interested or active creator in gold you know trying to get in and out that that’s not ever been my

Personal focus of course we do have our own precious metal commentaries is about trying to find if you are looking for times to get in sometimes clearly are better than others and this this moment feels like a pretty good time and and particularly if somebody hasn’t made the

Move and started to develop a position in gold and silver now you know it’s always a good time to have your initial position of course but if you’re going to leg in this doesn’t feel like a terrible time and I want to get to that because I’m thinking of that both you

Know from a technical standpoint seeing where market is but the reason I’m interested in talking with you today is from the fundamental standpoint I just really excited to talk to you because what I see when I look into the market is trying to understand where the companies

Are and what it really cost them to develop their minds and and/or qualities and yields and things like that as well as the all-in cost of production that’s right I’d like to go because my view could be wrong but my view it’s the same view I hold of the oil markets which is

You can’t stay at or below the marginal cost of new production for very long before you really begin to eat into your future supplies and of course that has an impact now with that said do you have any comments about the general structure of the markets today because it’s been a

Little bizarre to me amongst others before we get into the fundamentals that we’re seeing 250 billion a month flow in from the central banks its flowing into pretty much every asset class out there that you can find real estate bonds stocks but not commodities is is there

Do you have a sort of an opinion about why that might be is that is that something that you focus on i I guess I don’t focus on it to the extent to the extent that I used to you know the fact that oil looks like it could be entering

A period of weakness here other commodities have been seeing weakness you know that may be signaling that the central bank experiment is is starting to waver in terms of success that but what I’ve also realized for myself after the whole 2007-2008 I don’t just want to say downturn but devastation that we saw

Is that it’s it seems like it’s becoming almost impossible to forecast timing or reasons why why things are going to end and how they’re going to end so the way I think about it is just to try and be prepared as prepared as you can for any contingency you know if something

Happens quickly are you prepared for that if it takes 10 years longer than you think it might take can you hold out until you know you don’t want to put all your eggs in one basket and and I’ve always found my tendency tends to be somewhat early in these things but yeah

We know it’s going to end we don’t know when and we certainly don’t know how well yeah absolutely of course so I tend to be early to these things as well as you know as somebody who follows my work I’d rather be early than late too many

Of these stories and of course I have the luxury of having gotten into gold pretty heavily back in 2001 and to was my primary moments of purchasing so you know I have a luxury that’s very different from somebody who maybe started getting interested in it late particularly somebody who got interested

Between 2010-11 when when we you know it just struck me as odd as you know that that 2011 almost within a week of the Federal Reserve announced in qe3 the most extraordinary expansion of monetary policy ever was the exact moment when many of the commodities topped out very

Bizarre behavior but there it is so let’s let’s start all the way from the outside let’s imagine somebody has got a physical gold position they’re looking to gain some more exposure they want to start getting involved in mining shares how should they begin looking at this space well from my standpoint I would

Start probably by focusing on a few of the long-standing fund managers a number of these a number of these investors have very good track records and do a great job of providing investor commentary on a you know week to week or month to month basis so looking at mutual funds like

The Tocqueville fund or you know that’s John Hathaway or Frank Homes down in San Antonio they you know that’s where I think investors who don’t want to do the nitty gritty of looking at individual companies should start but if you’re interested in the individual companies

Then I would you know you have to start with the publicly available information and you can get pretty much everything you need from the reports that companies put out they have to report their reserves they have to report their cost structure they report the grades of of

Their reserve bases and you can get into as much detail as you want looking at whether they’re mining lower grades higher grades and on and on and on what I found with you know with many individual investors is that that you know it it turns out to be more work

Than they’re probably willing to do so the first thing is to realize what kind of an investor you are and if if you’re not someone who wants to stay on top of all that information then perhaps you’re better off with with a good mutual-fund because they hire people who do all that

Who do all that work for you when I was an analyst I really felt like I needed to see all of the operations of the mining companies that I followed and at the time I only followed the large producing companies so the Newmont barracks at that time AG Niko Eagle was

One of the smaller companies you know it’s since evolved into one of the strong mid tier companies that you would compare you know with with the Newmont Barrick Gold Corp you know some of the big ones so it was relatively easy to make judgments about the quality of the orbit of the ore

Deposits you know did management seem to have a good handle on the cost structure and all all that kind of stuff I don’t know how much more detail you want me to get in to that but I guess the the focus I would say is that you need to focus on

Cash flow just as you would for an oil company you can get bogged down in in all the details but in the end what you really want to see is whether these companies can generate operating cash flow that’s meaningful and even beyond that can they get to the point where

They generate free cash flow which is what they generate after they’ve paid for all the capital that it takes to bring these mines into existence and as a rule there aren’t a lot of gold companies that that really get to the point where they can generate free cash

Flow because you’re always in the situation where you have to replace the reserves that you mine gold companies tend to have very short reserved lives compared to copper companies or nickel companies all the base metal companies those deposits can sometimes go on for a hundred years or certainly several

Decades and there really aren’t that many gold deposits that have that kind of extensive long lives there are some certainly South Africa we saw that in Nevada we’ve seen that but there are many more gold mines that tend to have reserve lives of ten years or less so

Those are the companies that are always going to be scrambling to continue to replace and grow the reserve bases that they have now I do love the cash slow statements it’s been one of my major critiques of the shale business because the shale oil companies sort of

To make a metaphor here maybe analogy I guess you know they’ve got a situation where where they own some acreage there’s sweeter spots and less sweet spots which should be the equivalent of high-grade and lesser grade ores yields percentages and and they’ll drill in and

These wells will cost a lot of money a lot of capital and they’ll deplete principally within three years so 85% depletion so so if you’re looking at that it’s sort of like well there’s a three year life productive life for the well and then a tail it’s not hard to

Say that after a company’s been operating in their core spot for three to five years they ought to be generating positive free cash flows particularly if they’re not acquiring new property lease acreage and my critique was noticing that these companies even after they had been operating were not generally were

Generating wildly negative free cash flows meaning that the you know whatever their revenues are getting from operations less what they had to plow back in and capital expenditures for new wells was ending up a negative territory and they were covering the gap with financing activity so they were taking

On more debt issuing more equity all of that to me that’s a mark of a company I mean could could we if we were somebody wanted to just very simply started scanning through would is that a good place to start it’s like say if a company’s been in operation for a

Certain amount of time and they’re still deeply in the negative free cash flow territory is that a good place to begin sort of drawing a line and saying I’m going to look elsewhere absolutely and the other point and I think it it speaks to the shale

Companies as well you know much of their growth came by issuing debt in addition to going you know and getting equity from investors and that can be a death knell right at right out of the gate so in my mind only the largest gold companies that have a reserve base that

Can that can support a debt structure should that so if you’re looking at a small company and if for any reason they’ve acquired debt and in that I often include hedging strategies when I was following the company’s you know gold prices a good year it was if gold could

Get over $300 an ounce and there was a great temptation for for companies to hedge their gold production but that you know I’m not interested in in gold companies that want that want to do that because the reason why you buy is because you’re expecting that the price

Will go up over the life of the asset so yeah so I think you focus on the free cash flow potential and you focus on the balance sheet and that’s that’s a great place to start now that hedging strategies I was a pretty active investor in gold shares

From about 2005 through to about 2009-10 somewhere in that zone and then I’ve kind of lost my way for a while because what I was noticing was that as the gold prices were going up my share prices weren’t following and when I finally got sophisticated and dug in I discovered

There was a lot of dilution going on a lot of new equity issuance was happening and the cash flows weren’t being managed well and so that’s when I started to get my own education I peeled back and I said wait a minute these companies in many cases the companies had hedged their forward

Production which meant they had capped their upside for for the rising gold price which wasn’t why I was invested in them I wanted the I wanted I wanted some of that leverage to show up in the results and it wasn’t and and so I you know for really I think maybe this isn’t

Fair but I thought it was a poorly managed industry for a while at least in the companies I was looking at because they were they were just really playing a game of dilution that didn’t feel right to me as an investor so I backed

Off I’m a was that a fair sort of a characterization of the time and if so B has then sort of a change in strategy in the industry I think it’s absolutely a fair assessment and while I do think there are many companies that are well-managed

And there are a few companies that are brilliantly managed the vast majority of the companies continue not to be not to be well managed and it’s it’s partly because you know the management teams can be very strong from a technical standpoint they may be very good at at

Finding good prospects and but getting the money to actually get the job done is is always a challenge in this industry and so in my mind you can have the the companies that provide the financing are the ones who dictate how the balance sheets end up looking and it it often isn’t pretty

And what you also find is that when the price of the metal starts moving up when you start getting a good run then it’s very easy for these companies to raise money in the market and that is a temptation that that most of them will not forego and in retrospect it usually

Turns out to be good you know you need to take the money when it’s available but it’s it’s it’s a big risk for shareholders because if they have the money it’s it’s probably going to end up being spent and then you get a downturn

In the price and a lot of them end up being in trouble so I’ve been expecting we have seen you know a fair amount of weeding out since 2011 you know a number of companies have gone bankrupt they’ve been acquired it’s it’s what but believe me if we get you know the

Next big run-up you’re probably going to see a number of new companies and you know the same old thing it’s it’s um I guess it’s the allure of gold you know people are willing to to throw their money in when they start getting bullish without asking a lot of

Questions so you need to be careful well it seems to be that way in every every cycle the same thing happened in the shale business of course so yes it seems to be a perennial concern to make sure that you’re still tracking the fundamentals but to to capitulate what you said here

In some way there are companies out there now that are well-run that have managed the balance sheet well that have good reserves and and understand our are managing good free cash flows at current levels is that correct all right yeah and so that’s really I mean if people sort of boiled it down

And said listen that’s what I’m going to look at here I want to make sure they haven’t hedged all their future production away they’ve got good reserves and it got positive free cash flows here at these levels these will be the companies they’re going to be well-positioned when the next run comes

Yes yes and you know I would say for the most part the the largest companies have have learned those hard lessons even the even the ones that had been big hedgers in the past or had made ill-fated large acquisitions at the wrong time you know that the management’s that are in place

Now are are for the most part singing the same tune and trying to follow the same strategies you know without you know I don’t want to recommend any companies but I honestly believe that AG Nikko ECAL where I’m on the board and you know fully admit that I’m totally

Conflicted here but the management team has done an excellent job of managing both the downturn and trying to position to take advantage of the next upturn and you know just doing things in a smart way and I think they’ve provided a template for a number of other

Companies who are even larger ones who are following that template now okay so that’s fantastic information I want to I want to turn out to sort of a broader trend here which is you know one of the pieces that I cover a lot at peak prosperity is this idea of the humans

Have kind of sort of hit the limits in some way shape or form so when I’m looking at the average reported or grades this would be expressed in some grams per ton or some other way which basically says hey how much of the stuff we’re going after is in a ton of the

Source rock that it’s found in what I’m looking at this for silver and for gold what I’m noticing is over time is a pretty pronounced decline in the reported yield is this that is that do I have accurate information let me start there yeah no I would say that’s that’s

Accurate information you know obviously the earliest gold discoveries were high-grade you know what they call load mines you know the California mother lode where the project I was involved in as as CEO you know that those those were high grade operations then over time technology changed open pit mining

Became feasible and more common in in the early 1900’s and then in the 1980s the heat bleaching technology became more widespread and available and tested and discoveries of areas like the Carlin Trend in Nevada just opened up that whole low-grade potential so it’s been possible to get lowered

Lower grades and still make money by spending putting in the right kind of milling process or heat bleaching process what have you and I would say there’s also been uh certainly in the 2000s there’s been a tendency it’s been popular among many of the mid-tier and smaller companies to go after lower

Grade deposits and my my view is that it didn’t always turn out that well a number of those companies are the ones that had to spend a lot of money trying to build projects and and they just didn’t make it so those kinds of cycles going after higher grade but smaller

Projects versus lower grade but larger projects you know they seem to run in cycles and you know I’m always a proponent again of cash flow so I’d rather have a company that doesn’t produce as many ounces but they’re very profitable ounces then a company that’s trying to become the next multi

Multi-million ounce producer but perhaps doing that right at the skinny edge of survivable margins yes yes and and you’re vulnerable to you know two very small declines in the price at that point as well so it’s in my mind it it just can be a dangerous way to go you

Know the question is is there more gold to be discovered that is high-grade like we used to see many many decades ago and the answer to that question is is probably no but the fact is there are you know there still is a lot of exploration potential around the world

But it can tend to be in newer harsher environments or in countries where the the political situation isn’t conducive to allowing companies to actually make make a profit on their discoveries so I think a lot of the easy to find gold in politically less risky countries has

Been found but it you know there still will be people who are successful and that’s that’s the nature of the beast and you’re you’re hoping to either jump on the bandwagon with one of the early-stage companies or be involved with a major company that will benefit because they’ll know to make an astute

Acquisition at the right time now I’ve seen a bunch of charts kicking around I haven’t run the numbers myself but that basically suggests that where we are at the current price for gold which is hovering around the 12-hundred mark as we speak it’s a little north of that at

About twelve fifteen at the moment but that the all-in cost of production seems to be somewhere right around that number for the industry as a whole is is that accurate you know I haven’t looked at the industry-wide numbers for a while that very well could be you know

The companies I’m most involved in have a you know a significantly lower you know something in the you know seven eight hundred dollar range all in sustaining cost which includes sustaining capital but I will I guess inject a note of caution here that the industry seems to always be able to find

Some goal to produce just under or just over the current gold price so I know when gold prices fell down even as low as 250 dollars back in the early 90s and again in the late 90s companies were able to bring the cost structure down because it usually happens at a time

And energy prices are also low you know I mean there are people now saying gold or oil could fall to $30 and maybe even lower so if gold were to fall below $1000 an ounce my guess would be that it would be at the same time as energy

Prices for lower and the other thing that you need to focus on is that a number of these companies are producing gold in non dollar countries for example in in Canada so if the gold price goes down the cost structure will be reflected in in the currency as well and

So there’s kind of a natural hedge there for for those companies that that have that foreign currency exposure or non dollar currency exposure so it kind of seems to balance out so yeah I think you can make the argument that because people are producing at $1200 gold has

To move above that but it’s it’s turned out to be sort of a specious argument in my experience if gold goes to 1900 you can bet you’re going to find people producing gold for 1800 right they just will yeah and and you made the point

About oil and of course when I when I look at a very long term chart of the price of gold in the price of oil seems to be a very good correlation there and and if you have a sense of who’s you know it is oil the dog and is gold the

Tail in this story or why is that correlation so good I am not sure which is you know which is the tail wagging which dog I’m sure you know some cycles it’s one and some cycles that could be it could be the other but that’s just

What I’ve you know my experience is that that’s the way it seems to work well let some you know some people hold the view that mining in general is very destructive and I guess they we’ve gotten the feedback for at the site that you know to buy gold chairs is encouraging environmental

Destruction you know my point is that all mining is environmentally destructive and I guess that counter-argument as well but you know gold to put to put on I guess warren buffett’s aphorism on that on the table it’s it’s a rock you dig out of the ground and you put back

In a hole in the ground you know all of that so has whereas whereas gold mining in terms of its environmental impact how is that how is that progressed over time and how should we be looking at that now well I would you know I guess anyone who

Focuses just on the fact that you have to dig a hole in the ground to get metals out and this is true not just for gold obviously but for any natural resource you know I think you just need to be honest in looking at your daily

Life and look at all the ways that you use copper if you turn on any kind of a motor or any kind of a light bulb you use oil every time you get into your car you’ve you know had to mine many many minerals just to build the car that you

Drive so the reality is that metals and other resources make our life possible the companies I in my opinion do an excellent job of mitigating their their impact on the environment in terms of how they do the processing you know how how they restore once the mine is

Depleted and at the same time you know I just think the benefits if you go to some of these countries where there hasn’t been much in the way of development and see what a positive impact it can have on the lives of of communities that otherwise wouldn’t have

A way of supporting themselves you know you might you might take a less hostile view but anyway I’m I’m a proponent of mining I’ve been involved in this industry now you know for well over thirty years and you know I’m actually very proud of the record that that it has in helping to

Support our way of life and leaving the world a better place now as we look forward across across supply the supply of gold so is this something I’ve been tracking for a while it you know obviously mining adds a very small percentage each year to the total amount of gold that’s above-ground and

Above-ground stocks are divided into monetary metals which are held by central banks primarily and then other classifications under that of course there’s been a very large flow of above ground surface gold from the west to the east if I can include India and China as

Part of the East in the story and and it always felt to me like that those flows would have to someday either mitigate or the West would have to just say hey we don’t care about gold at this point in time and all of that so the amount of

Interest from other countries in gold as we look across across the world at this point in time from your perspective is there is there a hemorrhaging of gold from from the west to the east have you detected yourself at the mining level interest from other countries you know

From the east saying that they want to have access to the flows or how are you are you how is this west-east thesis sort of landing with you well that has been part of my thesis ever since I started looking at the industry so the reports that I wrote in

The 90s were you know we’re talking about that that very issue you know we’ve seen it with the slow declines in central bank holdings among western central banks we’ve seen you know there’s not a lot of mining of gold in countries like India China is now the largest gold producer

But they still buy a lot of gold that flows in from from outside so you know there’s a cultural affinity for gold in many of the countries of Asia particularly and then the Indian subcontinent as well as the Middle East that’s always been true despite the fact that we occasionally hear stories about

How that will change at some point you know they’ll all become westernized we haven’t seen that they are much more of saving nations than certainly we are now in the United States and and the same is true I think for many other Western countries as well so I think that’s a

Trend that that will that will continue and what and when you really think about it you know the numbers when when I was looking at them you know you look at all the gold that’s ever been produced which you know with a little bit of a wastage

There most of that gold is is still available in some way shape or form above ground but all the gold that’s produced is still not enough to provide one ounce of gold per person living in the world you know so the people in that part of the world have more than more

Than their allocation based on the availability and I think an awful lot of people in the West really have no interest whatsoever yeah a friend of mine grant Williams put it nobody cares nobody cares yeah that’s a great that was just a great presentation he did it

It wasn’t that I just was really perfect nobody cares and of course nobody cares well everybody cares and then it shifts and and it’s been a long time coming and it feels to me more than ever that the powers that be have really got their their hands on the levers really firmly

At this stage because it is astonishing to me that 250 billion a month is flowing into our financial markets and almost none of that is flowing through the paper markets into commodities at this stage across the board and as much as I I think it’s it’s just bizarre and

Gold and silver I mean I’d be absolutely livid too if I was somebody in the oil business looking at what’s happening because it’s clear that the financial markets that do control the physical pricing are very much in the hands of algorithms big players hot money speculators yada yada and so the

Question I have for you is it’s always been a little bit of a mystery to me and maybe you sort of answered it by by virtue of saying the companies that control the financing for the mining industry but I remember hearing one CEO once of one silver company saying hey

This is nuts you know our commodity that we produce this silver that we produce we’ve got eight banks that are short essentially more than a half a year’s worth of production it’s the largest short position in paper position of any commodity out there it feels manipulative let’s band together

And withhold some of our product or something like that I mean that was the idea and boy that idea just disappeared into the ether because I assume that’s a bad idea if you need to raise more financing to be taking on those cast of characters is there if you run into that

That there’s some is there any grumbling in the boardrooms about what seems to be the participants who are mainly controlling the price of the product have just play with paper they have nothing to do with it yeah you know I think it you know the idea that that was

Suggested of holding metal off I’m sure the lawyers in those companies were very adamant that you do not want to talk about that because you’ll run afoul of antitrust regulations in certainly in the US however they’re they’re happening chances and you may remember Rob McEwen when he was having that Goldcorp they

Did hold gold off and I’m on the board of McEwen Miami now and there was a time when when the company held some of its liquidity and precious metals so there are a few you know I would say no more than a handful of CEOs who really who really appreciate that certainly people

Know about it but you know the the management’s for the most part are are just more focused on their their operations their exploration then than they are on you know they know that once they sell the metal it it’s sort of outside their control so most of them

Are not you know just not that interested or have the time or are savvy enough to to try and fight that battle they have enough battles trying to make a profit doing what they’re doing but your point is is very is very well taken and there are several CEOs who do agree

With you hmm well it and again I think the oil business could have a similar claim and so could so could grains and a variety of other other places like that it’s just the concentration of positions though and silver is rather extreme compared to any other commodity I follow

It’s it’s really off the charts and and for the CFTC under Chilton too and in Gensler to have sort of said well we looked at it but you know maybe there’s something going on we don’t have the resources to really go after that I’m like you don’t what

What do you mean you don’t have the resources to look into that I thought that was your job to have those resources that’s that’s your market but their choice how they how they want to run that wait us we felt we all know about the revolving door yeah it’s it’s

It’s cat is throwing a 30 mile an hour wind its revolving so fast yes yeah so so yes we all understand yeah we get that so well in closing here because we’ve run out of time your summary then of where we are at this particular stage of the cycle if I

Could characterize it would be that we’re closer to the end of this languishing downturn cycle than we are to the beginning and when this ends and turns around there will be some great opportunities in here and this would be a reasonable time for people to begin accumulating other positions if they

Were of a mind to do so is that fair yeah no that that’s absolutely fair in terms of the metal and in terms of the shares as I mentioned you know if you really want to get involved in buying and selling the shares now would be a

Good time to start doing your homework to figure out which fun do I want to buy or which companies do I want to buy when when the price is right well fantastic thank you so much for your time today Leanne and if people were interested in

Following your work is there any way for them to do that I don’t really publish the way the way I used to but I would say anyone who wants to get a hold of me can get my information from you or Adam Taggart we live out in the same neck of the woods

Here and you know I’m happy to talk talk to anyone or have an email exchange well fantastic that will also be an up opportunity maybe in the comments section under this podcast at the site at peak prosperity of course we will yeah well we’ll continue the conversation there so Leanne thank you

So much for your time today and it’s been a real pleasure well thank you for having me I really appreciate it and I love the work that you guys do oh thank you