The Most Bullish Case For Bitcoin Ever Presented | Edan Yago

Tune in to our podcast with Edan Yago, a true pioneer of crypto. He’ll share his optimistic views on Bitcoin, which might be the most positive you’ve heard. Learn about being self-reliant and governing ourselves from someone who lives by these ideas and helps create new technology for Bitcoin and crypto. The future is happening now, and you won’t want to miss it!

Edan Yago: https://twitter.com/EdanYago

►► Sponsored by iTrust Capital
Invest in Bitcoin, Crypto Assets & Gold with Your IRA Using iTrust Capital.
👉 https://bit.ly/itrust-scott

►► JOIN THE FREE WOLF DEN NEWSLETTER, DELIVERED EVERY WEEK DAY!
👉https://thewolfden.substack.com/

►► OKX
Sign up for an OKX Trading Account then deposit & trade to unlock mystery box rewards of up to $10,000!
👉 https://www.okx.com/join/SCOTTMELKER

►►THE DAILY CLOSE
BRAND NEW NEWSLETTER! INSTITUTIONAL GRADE INDICATORS AND DATA DELIVERED DIRECTLY TO YOUR INBOX, EVERY DAY AT THE DAILY CLOSE. TRADE LIKE THE BIG BOYS.
👉 https://www.thedailyclose.io/

►►NORD VPN
GET EXCLUSIVE NORDVPN DEAL – 40% DISCOUNT! IT’S RISK-FREE WITH NORD’S 30-DAY MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE. PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY!
👉 https://nordvpn.com/WolfOfAllStreets

►►COINROUTES
TRADE SPOT & DERIVATIVES ACROSS CEFI AND DEFI USING YOUR OWN ACCOUNTS WITH THIS ADVANCED ALGORITHMIC PLATFORM. SAVE TONS OF MONEY ON TRADING FEES LIKE THE PROS!
👉 http://bit.ly/3ZXeYKd

Follow Scott Melker:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/scottmelker
Web: https://www.thewolfofallstreets.io
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/30N5FDe
Apple podcast: https://apple.co/3FASB2c

#Bitcoin #Crypto #Future

Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:55 Shady super coders
2:56 iTrustCapital
3:54 Bitcoin vs other blockchains
7:18 Bitcoin space is huge
9:48 What Edan Yago is building
14:38 Bitcoin ETFs: good or bad?
17:58 Self sovereignty & self sufficiency
20:18 How Edan Yago lives a Bitcoin life
23:18 Silk Road
27:10 The world’s most bullish case for Bitcoin
31:48 Gaming on Bitcoin
34:53 The future of Ethereum and Solana
37:03 Governance
39:48 The return of city states
42:58 DAO
47:13 Neuralink
48:08 Technology trade off
49:38 A grand awakening
53:48 The El Salvador case
57:38 The true genius of Satoshi
59:38 Wrap up

The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own and should in no way be interpreted as financial advice. This video was created for entertainment. Every investment and trading move involves risk. You should conduct your own research when making a decision. I am not a financial advisor. Nothing contained in this video constitutes or shall be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or recommendations of an investment strategy or whether or not to “Buy,” “Sell,” or “Hold” an investment.

What what did Elizabeth Warren calls you guys Shady super cers you Shady super coders hey you kids you know with the with the skateboard yeah you and me right the the old guys but why was your life so easy world domination simple goal as being opposed

To you see even you literally just got fireworks to go off when you were talking it was so compelling that was the best thing that’s ever happened on one of my podcasts I’m going to keep this introduction simple this conversation is the most bullish case for Bitcoin ever presented from one of

The greatest thinkers and builders in the Bitcoin space adago you do not want to miss this Let let do so Bitcoin was supposed to be digital gold and really boring but now now all of a sudden you guys you uh you uh what what did Elizabeth Warren calls you guys Shady super coders you Shady super cerss are out here trying to build everything on the other chains on bitcoin

Why well why first of all because we can and you know how uh how Builders are but more importantly because Bitcoin is it’s like the 900b gorilla it’s the Godzilla of crypto it’s the most secure in um the only one that we can be sure is

Going to be here in five years and 10 years for our children and our grandchildren and if you want to build something significant and real you want to build on the one chain that is going to stick around I call Bitcoin not software not Hardware but something new

Permare because it’s permanent in a way that nothing else uh like it is and not only that it’s it’s the most secure not just because of Bitcoin proof of work but also because it’s got really really simple code right I mean there’s nobody in the world who understands how

Ethereum works anymore it’s code has just become this massive like spaghetti pile that no single person understands Bitcoin despite the fact that it’s even older because it’s maintain Simplicity is well understood and and can be grasped by Any Given individual and so there’s hundreds of individuals who fully understand Bitcoin that’s a that’s

A very powerful advantage and so for a lot of developers and I’m seeing more and more Developers is now saying wow okay it looks like the tools to build anything on bitcoin are coming possible it basically turns ethereum into a testnet for Bitcoin that’s exactly how a

Lot of people are describing it now as a test net for Bitcoin but are there advantages to any of these other chains or they effectively just good places to experiment before you go build it on the Granddaddy and build it on bitcoin I’ve been super impressed by what people

Built on let’s say ethereum crypto investors in the United States face some major challenges one of of them is that there’s almost no way to get exposure to the asset class inside of your traditional investment vehicles the other thing is the taxes they are absolutely atrocious what if I told you

There was a way to solve both of these problems well there is and it’s with a self-directed IRA from I trust Capital guys not only can you open a new self-directed IRA and fund it with the limits each year but you can actually convert over from your 401k your Roth

IRA any other Ira that you already have and you can do that taxfree just transferring over the balance and then you can go to cash buy as much Bitcoin you want and not pay taxes when you sell it you absolutely have to try this if you are in the United States use the

Link down below it’s bit.ly itrust dcot that’s bit. litr us- seot T you have to try this now so let me let me take a step back right so I think a lot of people have gotten used to thinking about Bitcoin is purely digital gold and that’s the only thing

It will ever be and sort of like uh Boomer Tech doesn’t change so what’s changed right what’s changed is that we now have a race between a bunch of different projects to build rollups on bitcoin and what these rollups can do is they can extend what Bitcoin is able to

Do you can have basically infinite scalability you can build any code you could have salana like speed on bitcoin uh lowcost transactions maybe too free too too cheap to meter and uh any kind of smart contract you want and and what makes this possible is actually technology that was built on ethereum so

The the the whole Paradigm of building rollups the ability to take sort of a chain which doesn’t have its own consensus take all of those transactions wrap them up or roll them up into a proof embed that proof into another chain and then as as a result all of those transactions become transactions

In that chain um that was something that was invented by ethereum and so I have a huge amount of respect for ethereum another thing that was invented on ethereum for example is defi right the ability to start transacting without going to FTX without going to Celsius without going to Voyager that is really

Important we just learned how important it is to maintain control and self- custody of your coins so there’s been a huge amount of innovation there but at the same time because ethereum was trying to move fast and break things to get there as quickly as possible what’s happened is you know they’ they’ve

Introduced proof of stake Which is far less secure and sort of creat centralization they’ve got massive spaghetti code they’re slower now than salana and less secure than Bitcoin they’re sort of stuck in this middle world and suddenly Bitcoin is able to absorb all of their technology and it

Reminds me you know back in the old days of Bitcoin we always used to say any technology that can be useful to bitcoin will be a adopted by Bitcoin Bitcoin is the apex predator and it just looks like that was totally true so when we say

It’s a test net there’s all these bad ideas that also get washed out and the best ideas arrive and people run with them in the Bitcoin space so ordinals obviously began this conversation to some degree at least in this cycle for for for maybe for the more mainstream

Audience all of a sudden got n nfts on bitcoin then brc2 tokens all of a sudden we got meme coins on bitcoin right I’m always a proponent of seeing what can be built seeing what happens I love the experiment not the opinion of a lot of people who are super passionate about

Bitcoin right so there’s sort of been this bipolarity in the Bitcoin community of those who think things should never change the hey you kids get off my lawn Boomer uh crowd and then the uh young hip-hop listening kids blasting music driving past the house that that Boomer

Is very angry at who are building everything and bringing all the things those Boomers hate to bitcoin you’re kind of the latter I guess a little bit um although you were building on bitcoin long before this I one of the old guys of the latter yeah yeah I was going to

Say you’re you’re you’re like you’re like the uh the meme of Steve Bushi hey you kids you know with the with the skateboard yeah you and me right the with the the old guys but you know how do we deal with that sort of bipolarity or do you think that the Boomer crowd

Just gets marginalized because it’s Unstoppable oh I mean like I don’t call them Maxis right I call them the Bitcoin nannies they’re like no you can’t have tokens I don’t like tokens no you can’t have rollups no you can’t have nfts you know they’re they’re they want to point

Fingers at everyone and tell everyone that they’re an attack on bitcoin and a scam and for a while they had power in Bitcoin because basically Bitcoin was like a 100 like maybe 100 at most uh influencers who had podcast and every week you would listen to this Bitcoin

Podcast and they would be talking about exactly the same thing they were talking about with exactly the same guess that they spoke about last week inflation and the fed and stock to flow and all that stuff and it’s because that we we just the developers the builders we didn’t

Have the tools to go out and and build on bitcoin so yeah know I’ve been building on bitcoin for a long time and I was like okay I’m going to build whatever I can um but most people were like okay you know it’s just too hard now that’s

Changed the Bitcoin nannies they’ve been shown to be wrong they’ve become boring no one wants to listen to them anymore there’s way more exciting stuff happening and really their opinion doesn’t matter because everything that’s being built in Bitcoin right now is permissions we don’t need a fork we

Don’t need to change to bitcoin code we figured out how to route around them and it was to a great extent because of tap rot Tapo opened the door to all of the stuff and then Casey came in with ordinals and was like hey we can do nfts

And then someone came in and was like okay we can do tokens and now we’re doing rollups and it just I think people don’t realize what the how big this is like a reboot of the entire crypto space because we’ve had the crypto space now

For close to 15 years and the one thing that’s been true is Bitcoin is big but only does one thing and then there’s everything else which is exciting and feature but sort of like there’s like you know a big battle between them and now we’ve got this new situation which

Is emerging this year where Bitcoin is the biggest and it gets to look at everything that’s been built out there and just pick and choose the best stuff and bring it all over and so if you think of defi on ethereum’s big Bitcoin is three times the size of of of

Ethereum and it’s got no defi the the projects that are building Defi and Bitcoin now are going to be three times the size of a and they’re going to do it in a year we no I don’t think anyone’s prepared for what’s about to happen so what are you building then because you

Said you have the ability to pick and choose that’s got to be like a kid in the candy store but you can’t do it all at once unless you can create a platform where you can do all of those things but let’s talk specifically about what

You’re building now well I mean you know I’ve been working on Sovereign for three years right and the we three years ago we said this is going to happen and so what we started doing is we started building to this moment for three years so that we would have a head start over

Everyone so we’ve built out def5 for Bitcoin we’ve built up we’ve done billions of dollars in trade hundreds of millions of dollars in lending we’ve built out Bitcoin stable coins we’ve built out decentralized governance tools we built out nfts and we’ve been working we put out some of the first papers um

And certainly the most influential papers on how to do Bitcoin rollups and so this is what we’ve been doing we’ve been building towards this moment for three years and we’re going to introduce rollups we’re going to we’ we’ve helped a bunch of other teams build up their

Own projects we’re going to create an ecosystem on on bitcoin and for us that’s sort of like our our current goal is to do that is to bring rollups to bring defi to bring decentralization and way more like self- sovereignty to to bitcoiners and our ultimate goal is um

Make sure that we build in everything in Bitcoin that the world will get built in Bitcoin world domination simple goal replace the replace the existing Financial system simple goal but the thing is that’s what that was the promise of Bitcoin from the beginning yeah but as you’ve admitted you couldn’t

Really do that back then and nobody was sure that you ever would be able to right because tap rot really as you said introduced that so Bitcoin in itself is a financial system but it was never going to have all of the tools that you needed for a full wholesale

Replacement well there was something kind of ridiculous about it right I mean people kept on talking about Bitcoin as money as currency but a currency needs an economy otherwise where are people using this currency right and you look at Bitcoin it’s just become this thing that people like huddle like Dr dragons

In their wallets and never touch it’s not a currency it’s sort of like a Dwarven gold right for it to become a currency it needs to have a native economy and so that’s what we’re trying to build we’re trying to so actually the the the the project that we’re you know

We call it Bitcoin o we’re trying to turn Bitcoin into an operating system upon which we can build Finance upon which we can build governance upon which we can build a new world right so Bitcoin moves from just being Bitcoin digital gold to bitcoin OS the operating

System for the world I think we’ve been having these conversations for three years as I’m thinking back about it I’m not sure when we did our first podcast but it had to be 2021 or late 2020 and you did believe in all of these ideas

Back then but you also did I think still have a bit more of that maximalist mentality where Bitcoin itself could become a global Reserve currency and could integrate into the greater Financial system now it sounds like we’re going for a full replacement right and Maxis forever have been saying that

Basically the existing systems would come to bitcoin they wouldn’t even need to be built like Bitcoin would just become the global Reserve currency and things would become denominated in Bitcoin sounds like there’s a shift sort of in that ethos I don’t think I ever belied that I thought maybe you didn’t

Yeah I I mean I think I I remember even being with you on like a call like this and saying look in 19 uh 37 the US confiscated everyone’s gold right um and they were able to do that because people held gold in Banks and so like they just

Sent a bunch of letters to the banks and they were like hey all that gold you guys have it yo it’s ours now um so and here we are like two weeks it feels like forever but I think it was like two or three weeks ago I don’t think it’s even

Three weeks we’ve launched an ETF and so what what everyone doing everyone’s going and taking their dollars and converting them into these IUS for Bitcoin which are are held at financial institutions and Banks and all of that Bitcoin is potentially seizable my view is the people who are really empowered

That the people who are really Sovereign and the real heroes of this sort of new world that we’re building are the people who maintain control themselves the people who use defi the people who use their own wallets the people who don’t keep funds in Banks and ETFs and exchanges and they’re

Safer um they they end up doing better financially and they’re also doing better for the world and so unless we build the opportunity to do that and to do that profitably with Bitcoin Bitcoin never becomes what we want it to become do you view then the ETFs as a net

Positive or a net negative for Bitcoin so I just spoke against the ETFs but I think it’s a net positive I think it’s a net positive because it raises awareness it raises legitimacy it gets more people involved it increases the economic the value which is the economic engine of

All of this and it doesn’t stop us from carving out our own freedom and that’s that’s the big deal right one of the interesting things is a lot of people sort of been posting threads about how there’s a like ETFs are like a risk to bitcoin because Black Rock sort of will

Have all the Bitcoin and then they will Fork Bitcoin to turn it into a compliant chain and say all right uh this is the new Bitcoin and everyone will go along with them because they’ve got all of the money but rollups change that the best defense that we have against that ever

Happening on rollups because what happens with rollups is if we build out a whole bunch of economic value on these rollups and these rollups um point to bitcoin basically it moves all of that uh value away from just the token and into the Integrations and then Black

Rock would not just have to Fork Bitcoin they would have to Fork all of the rollups as well and you know good luck with that that’s definitely not going to happen way too decentralized and so it this is a massive boost to the decentralization of Bitcoin and it basically makes Bitcoin unforked maybe

I’m naive but I view it sort of from the marketing perspective as a huge sales funnel and anything that gets more people in at the top of the funnel is eventually going to bring them down and narrow it down and we’re going to get more people who are self- sovereign who

Find out about self- custody decide to go down that rabbit hole find the best solution for themselves so yeah let’s say milli ions of people come in through the ETF if hundreds of thousands of those eventually buy real Bitcoin and self custody it then the ETF has done

Its job in my opinion yeah I totally agree I think of it as as I I sometimes refer to it as the letter of sovereignty you start out you’ve got all your money in a bank you’re super unself Sovereign and then you slowly figure out okay

Actually maybe you know I can buy some Bitcoin but you keep it on coinbase and then you figure out how to hold it in your own wallet and then you figure out how to put it to use and then you figure out how to use Bitcoin back stable coins

And how to borrow against your Bitcoin so you can actually spend the money without ever selling the Bitcoin and you slowly and then you end up like me some kind of crazy Mountain guy who’s growing his own food and has solar panels and sort of you know and then all right like

I’m 90% off grid but that you don’t have to go all the way right um You can just basically hold your own Bitcoin and you’ve you you you’re 90% of the way there and so I think this is just bring this is we are in a process which is

Going to take a long time it’s basically a generation where we’re changing the way people think we’re reintroducing the idea of self-sufficiency We’re reintroducing the idea of um of responsibility for you know your own life um and we have to do this now because the governments are

Broke right their debt to GDP ratio is insane they’re not going to be able to pay off their debts everyone who thinks he’s got a retirement account is going to find that it’s not worth anything or that it gets confiscated everyone who’s relying on welfare checks is going to figure out

That they they’re going to disappear anyone who’s an employee and is trying to figure out like how am I earning so much money like I know so many people who are like top earners right they’re in the top desile of earners and they’re living paycheck to paycheck because

They’re paying half of that in taxes and then they’re paying VAT on top of that and they’re paying capital gains on top of that and they’ve got like nothing and and then the cost of housing because the government goes up and the cost of hospitals and medical like somehow

You’re just getting eaten alive so I think we have no choice we have to figure out how to become self-sufficient how to be responsible for our choices and so I think I’ve said this to you before I think every generation gets an opportunity to make the one right choice and then if you

Just do that everything else falls into place for our grandparents generation if you just got a University degree you were set for life it didn’t matter what other nonsense you could have been a drinker you could have been a gambler was fine for our parents generation if

You just bought a house and sat in it paid your mortgage for 30 years you’re a millionaire today and for us you just need to buy Bitcoin stick it somewhere where people can’t take it from you and that’s it and your children are going to

Be like why was your life so easy yeah but it’s interesting because still comes back to this one simple decision which is buy Bitcoin but then there’s this endless Rabbit Hole of what you guys are building and what can happen so let’s talk about what this actually means if

The path of government is as you described how does this become a replacement what’s the pathway how will people use this in their everyday life in Your Vision to opt out of that system or if that system dies to have one that they can even participate in I think I

Can use myself as an example I don’t live in a country in which I’m a citizen I move around all the time I have a place where I’m basically self-sufficient I don’t have a retirement account I don’t you know rely on welfare or unemployment um and I mostly don’t pay

Taxes because I don’t have a tax residency anywhere so I exist in this world but I’m not really related to the structures that most people consider like like I don’t have a government I don’t you know I’m disconnected from that stuff and the reason I’m able to do

That and and I basically have no Fiat right I have just enough fat to pay for day-to-day expenses so the reason I’m ble to do that is because my savings are in Bitcoin um the way I make my money or the business that I work with isn’t even a corporation

It’s it’s a dow it’s completely you know governed by Bitcoin um you know we call we call it the biocracy it’s sort of governed by that my community are people like you um people like who work with me some of them I’ve never met them in real

Life I don’t know what they look like because there are nons so I’m an extreme case today but I think I’m going to but but what I’m doing in the way that I live my life is becoming easier and easier and easier and it opens a path of

Freedom to so many people so then you start asking yourself all right but what about you know all of the things like a normal person system of okay but I own a house and also I have like a bicycle what if someone tries to steal my bicycle like I’m going to need the

Government right um so I think what’s going to happen is all of the major assets houses real estate bonds stocks all of this is ultimately going to get written to the blockchain and once it’s written to the blockchain once it’s tokenized it basically gets governed by the blockchain so it basically becomes a

Token so your house right now if you want to sell you have to get the deed written up you go to the to to to the um land registry right that land registry is going to get put on a blockchain it’s going and which blockchain they’re going

To choose they’re going to choose the most secure it’s going to be on bitcoin and then transfers will happen as automatically as any token transfer and you’ll be able to take your house you’ll be able to put it into an a lending pool and you’ll be able to borrow against it

And you’ll be able to borrow from people who exist in a borderless world anywhere in the world and and and we’re going to see that happen and basically all of the big assets are going to get taken care of that way and they won’t need to be governed by governments they won’t have

The constrictions of of of of Border based regulations but what about the more difficult case right what about you know I’m trying to do a business deal with someone or someone tries to steal my bicycle well for that answer I’m going to go all the way back to the very

Earliest days of Bitcoin which is the Silk Road right the Silk Road is just this mindblowing thing that Humanity built because you had like the skiest people in the world drug dealers and the people who are buying drugs from them existing across the world right and they were doing deals buying buying and

Selling and no one was cheating anyone and the reason they weren’t cheating anyone was because the funds were held in Escrow because there was a decentralized group of people who were doing arbitration if there was any dispute and there was a way to punish people economically if they did

Something silly and it turns out that that free market the freest Market we ever had just works and I suspect that that’s exactly what we’re going to evolve into it’s not going to happen immediately but it’s the CH the world our children live will live in it will

Be a much more peace world because it will be Silk Road for everything do you think you could have pulled this all off if you were an American well I think it’s harder for Americans and I I’m sorry that you’re one thank you thank you um I I’m

Thinking I’ve lived in America I’m thinking maybe living there some more I’m never going to become an American citizen because holy [ __ ] because why but I mean you’ve got you’ve got outs you know there’s Puerto Rico there’s the ability to take your money and put them in an offshore company and offshore

Trust and there’s Bitcoin you hold Bitcoin it doesn’t exist anywhere so I mean like for day today things you’re kind of stuck but for what your children will inherit from you for your rainy day fund for your World War III security sort of satchel you don’t rely on anyone of

Course let’s take the logic of what you’re building and all of this a bit further because you still do need some sort of bank account or some way to convert to Fiat so that you can go to the store and you can buy those groceries if you’re not self-sufficient

For someone who’s gone 25% of the way but isn’t fully self-sufficient but they believe in this and their government collapses but you still need to go to the grocery store and buy bread right how do you then get to Fiat what if they’ve banned your coinbase account and

There’s no way to convert right so I mean there’s obviously huge roadblocks here still well I mean there’s more and more um wallets or sort of providers of cards you can just keep your funds in like cryptocurrency and it will autocon convert every time you make the purchase

I’ve been trying to work on a project which would allow people actually to just hold their Bitcoin and to borrow dollars against their Bitcoin so they wouldn’t even be spending money that they would have they were having they would just like sort of be able to

Borrow against that um to make it to spend and I think the fact that we have the ETF now makes it much much harder for them to ban for Bitcoin maybe for some of the other things but for Bitcoin it becomes very hard to say oh yeah you

Can own the ET but you can’t borrow against it or you can’t have a credit card attached to that uh to to the same asset very difficult you know we’re probably going to see that continue and then a few years down the line you know

X you know Twitter is trying to become a payment system um more we’re seeing a convergence of more and more of you know digital social media and payments and more and more people just have crypto wallets and I think once you hit about you know 250 million people that’s

Critical mass of uh people who are just walking around with a with a crypto wallet in their phone it’s going to become worthwhile for everyone to just accept those payments because it’ll reduce friction for them to get customers and then then it be just direct so let’s say I want to title this

Podcast the world’s most bullish case for Bitcoin let’s make the case because it’ll be a really good clickbait title if we can get there listen we’re building all of these things there’s an ETF number go up you know we’re all excited about the prospects of a having cycle and 237.55

Bitcoin okay those are prices but what’s the most bullish case right now for Bitcoin Beyond just price appreciation all right so I actually want to start what you said just like let’s start with this year what do we have we’ve got ETF we’ve got Haring we’ve got new token

Protocols right so runes is coming tap rot assets is coming so we got tokens now got nfts we’ve we’ve got rollups which are bringing the ability to build anything onit Bitcoin in 2024 is going to have a miracle year it’s going to be like nothing we’ve ever experienced

Before so all of that’s happening at the same time America has never seemed so weak it doesn’t seem to be able to operate in you know forcefully in the Middle East it’s bugged down it’s um massively overend it can’t really bring down um uh inflation and everyone has

Lost trust in governments and in the institutions and in the banks since like 2008 everyone’s just been losing trust and Trust has been plummeting and you take those things together and you realize okay we’ve got this asset which is now being adopted by countries and being adopted by large corporations and

Has an ETF and has the ability to act as an operating system for us to build anything on top of it and you’ve got people who are becoming increasingly digital increasingly mobile um an entire generation who are doing this especially after they learned that they can live anywhere and work

Anywhere with Co and you tie that together with the crumbling of the institutions it’s the perfect setup like nothing nothing has happened over the last few years to reduce the case in Bitcoin everything that people have been saying about Bitcoin has only accelerated at a at a rate I didn’t

Think we would get this far this quickly and the weird thing is it could happen overnight right you could have a major you could have like the debt ceiling not not PED in the US and suddenly like the financial markets go berserk and nobody knows what to do and because we’re in

The middle of a bull run everyone suddenly got Bitcoin and everything rushes into Bitcoin or it could happen three years down the ride down down the road there could be a war or there could just be another big bull run and Bitcoin surpasses gold and everyone’s like what

Bitcoin’s bigger than gold holy [ __ ] it’s so fundamental and at the same time you’ve got countries like the biggest countries in the world China and Brazil and Russia are trying to get away away from the dollar right and then they start transacting in do you know that

Right now Russia is selling oil to China and to India and the way that China India are paying them is they’re spilling planes like jumbo jets with gold right this is not a secure way of transacting right one of those planes go down you lose hundreds of millions of

Dollars how long is it going to be before they start saying actually let me just um let me just click here and and you’ll get the money right like reviewing the address a D3 Capital damn yeah if you think sending a Bitcoin transaction is stressful think about

Sending a a jumbo jet with gold right yeah so I don’t think it’s that far away I think it’s crazy close and you know it’s like like gradually but suddenly and interestingly I think the thing that’s going to make it happen or be the Catalyst will just be higher prices uh

Yeah I mean ultimately yeah that that’s the marketing as much as I hate to say that the the thing that’s going to make people pay attention the thing that put it on the CNBC and the fox tickers and got podcasters talking about it and got bitcoiners on TV was simply that price

Went up and people started paying attention yeah but think about what’s going to happen now in this cycle right everything that we’ve seen before right like it’s been Bitcoin okay cool bitcoin price goes up but there’s all of these shiny tokens there’s all these shiny Dows there’s all of these shiny gaming

Projects and D5 projects and now you’re going to have that happen on bitcoin like the the marketing for Bitcoin is going to be crazy the opportunity for upside for people who get who figure this sort of new narrative out quickly and early is going to be massive this is

This is a SE change Bitcoin is going to be doing two things at once it’s going to be absorbing the altcoin world and it’s going to be absorbing the trefi world like together that’s crazy you talked about gaming we know that there’s all these narratives outside of just

Ordinals and brc2 tokens right we’ve had the Cycles in other in other ecosystems Defi and metaverse fall and whatever can Bitcoin or things being built on side chains be fast enough for a AAA game for example yeah and the reason is you can sort of modulate with a with a side

Chain how frequently you publish the so not a side chain Sly a r how frequently yeah you publish to bitcoin um your proofs and so so um you can modulate so you can say I’m going to be slightly less like I’m running Tetris I don’t need to be you

Know Fort knock secure right but I want to be super I want to be basically free to use you can do that and that that’s sort of like the trade of that salana has made right salana said look we’ve got you know fewer nodes and they’re big

And Hefty and almost no one can use them but we’re really fast and really cheap now imagine you could do that but you can do it as part of a bigger ecosystem totally interoperable no need for Bridges like the whole thing is just one system um so there’s no not the risk of

Bridges um and you’re built on and you’ve got way more security because you’re buil on the most secure system in the world how long is it going to take for this to play out I think we’re going to start seeing the first significant rollups maybe even before the middle of

This year I know we’re working faster than we’ve ever worked before because so many people are racing us to the finish line so that’s the level of motivation we have so I think sovereign’s going to launch Bitcoin OS with a bunch of really cool Partners I think um you got a bunch

Of other projects U like chainway and alpen labs and Kar Tapo Wizards that you know have been making a lot of noise um so there’s a lot of projects working on this and I think we start getting sort of like that ability to have like really cheap

Modularity probably by the end of the year or middle of next year so this is going to happen really fast so in this most bullish case for Bitcoin I think obviously it sucks the air out of the room as you said because it would be the largest ecosystem the most secure what

Happens to the ethereums and Salas and the other chains of the world if this really fulfills its full promise well my my thesis has always been that they are going to become like Niche ecosystems ultimately I don’t think it happens overnight I think I’ve been kind of surprised how much Solana

Has sort of managed to hurt the ethereum narrative I didn’t expect that to happen especially because ethereum is getting rollups now as well so should be a especially because salana was dead a year ago yeah exactly so I think that’s really impressive but it also tells you just how quickly narratives can change

And how narratives can die real quick now I can come back and I expect you know 10 years from now I expect it still to be in ethereum and I expect it to still have like a hundred billion dollars of value it’s just that everything else would have grown so much

Bigger I think that makes sense do you think that we will be seeing people use them all interoperative still at that point you kind of mentioned Bridges I mean it’s nothing but hacks and clunky ux and UI still even even in this cycle or will there just be no reason to

Bridge back from Bitcoin to ethereum or salana a one-way Bridge there are theoretically sort of less risky ways to Bridge and we might start seeing them I think with ethereum there’s going to be sort of like you know a culture that develops around it probably where people become sort of

Ethereum loyalists um maybe it becomes like the woke chain or maybe it becomes like the the know yeah whatever right so I think there’ll always be a little bit of back and forth if you look just look at Bitcoin dominance it’s sort of never really like you know it’s always it it

Manages to you know go to up to you know somewhere between you know 40 and 70% right ethereum’s never really managed to surpass 20% and I think that’s you know and so I think it’s I think it’s not going to be an a fast process I think we’re talking

Five or 10 years but I do think that there’s going to be like this General decline in in its in its dominance I want to talk about governments a bit more and this is a top of the UN I have certainly covered quite a few times in the past but you’re very passionate

About decentralized governance also with government not simply just with your tokens right we’ve talked in the past about looking for land in certain countries where you could effectively carve out your own country that is operated by a dow how much of that would be empowered by this

System uh and how far could that theoretically be away if you’re still passionate about it which I assume you are look my ultimate goal for me and mostly for you know my children like the kind of world I want to leave behind is I want to leave behind a world which we

Struggle even to imagine in terms of I want there to be things that we think are paradoxical um we today think of individualism as being a part osed to you see even you literally just got fireworks to go off when you were talking it was so compelling for the

People listening he literally just fireworks went off in the back of his screen continue all right the best thing that’s ever happened on one my people think about individualism as being opposed to community and I think that’s because governments have interjected themselves between the individual and

Community it used to be you would go to church or you’d have your Civic group or you’d have you know your Free Masons or gentleman’s club or whatever and there would be a way for you to connect with your community and you would do charity

Work and you would have you know a role to play in community and the government basically came in and said look we’re going to do education and we’re going to do welfare and we’re going to take care of you know the policing and the firemen and everything and this all happened

Over the last 200 years people think it’s been like this forever but it hasn’t and so I think people have become atomized by by this process so what I what the world that I would like to be in is a world where people um have all of the individual power that you can

Imagine like everything I just spoke about and exactly because of that they say okay now I need to find the community I need to find people who think like me uh and you know I need to and have my shared values and I don’t want you know to wake up every day and

Doom scroll Twitter and feel like the world is just full of [ __ ] who want to shout at each other I want to be able to meet people in real life life no and and have shared values with them and raise kids with them and and you know

And I think um I think the way we do that is we create these oped in societies and I I’m I’m I’m convinced it’s going to happen governments are broke um all of the money is is is being sucked into Bitcoin and what’s going to happen and you know I’ve been looking

For you know I’ve been looking for these opportunities and and and we’re starting to see some of them emerge like in Honduras there’s prospera right it’s basically basically a free city right um poor country basically said here like you know here’s some land try to build

Freedom and and and if you go to Prosperity day you can get Medical Treatments you can’t get anywhere else I’ll give you an example you know how you have to brush your teeth the reason you have to brush your teeth is because there’s bacteria that if you have any

Sugar in what you’re eating they’ll eat the they’ll take that and they’ll turn it into acid right so they’ve genetically re-engineered these bacteria to turn it into alcohol micro amounts of alcohol that won’t impact you but as a result you don’t need to rot your teeth

So we I can imagine a situation it’s I don’t even need to imagine it anymore like my kids are never going to have to brush their teeth they’re just going to have this bacteria replace yeah right I it today it cost $20,000 but in a few

Years it will be you know a couple of hundred dollars and this was pioneered in a free City because they didn’t have the and they don’t have like the same yeah so we’re just going to see little communities pop up like this and they’re these communities are going to draw in

Like the the best and the brightest because those are the people who are most free and they’re just going to become the economic engine of the world and then at that point it’s basically inevitable and so I think we’re going to see The Return of city states so Atlas

Shrugged guls Gulch I mean that’s what we’re talking G Gulch was was hiding this is people saying like we want to engage with the world we’re going to be part of the world I mean think about the American Community like the expats living in Puerto Rico right these are

Kind of stateless people they’ve come together they formed their own Community they’re living in not a low regulation environment but a less regulation environment and you go there and you meet those people and they’ve got their own clubs and they’ve you know and they’re starting to give back to their

Local communities because they don’t want like everyone to hate them and so there’s like a real bonds being created there I think this is this is inevitable and then the question becomes how do how do people govern themselves well I mean you’ll be able to leave any of these

Societies really instantly so these societies will have to offer you the best possible service will it be like Singapore times 10 or Dubai times 10 and they’ll basically become like these for-profit businesses where they’re all competing for you they’re like trying to be the best possible place for you to

Live because they are not their own countries cuz I don’t think they’re ever going to become their own countri countries will slowly wither away but these won’t be countries they’ll be run like Dows they’ll be run like Dows you’ll sign contracts with them which are basically smart contracts and they

Will have obligations towards you in just the same way that a dow has and so all of this shitty experimentation that we’re doing with Dows right now 90% of which ends in teers the 10% that we’re learning that doesn’t end in tiers is going to power the future so who takes

Out the trash and cleans the toilets in this Society the service providers what you might ask yourself is okay but what happens to poor people that’s that’s that’s really the core of that question right yes one of the most astounding things that people don’t recognize is Economist economists

Disagree on everything on every single thing how do you create uh anything right but there is one thing which study after study after study of economists have come to consensus on which is that if you allowed everyone to live under productive regimes today like if you and

Two ways you could do it either give them a productive regime or you allow them to like move to Europe and America Global GDP would double overnight why are people in Mexico poorer than people in the US why are people in Africa poorer than people in you know Europe they they don’t have

Property rights they don’t have good governance and you know there are other things as well but those are the primary drivers and so if you basically have a system which is able to give everyone access to property rights which is basically what Bitcoin is it’s property rights for everyone and Dows are

Governance for everyone and you force those those Dows to be really really good because they’re constantly competing uh with each other then you basically have good governance for everyone and then you combine that with the fact that you know we have ai we have technological improvements um you you allow an

Explosion of productivity so my my basic answer to Is we become more productive and we will be much less Rich much less poor but my even bigger answer is everyone in the world everyone can afford Coca-Cola and when governance good governance gets privatized everyone will be able to afford that as

Well or we’ll just have Von musk’s future robotic Army clean our toilets I mean you talked about AI it’s a joke but you talked about Ai and I think that technology will probably handle a lot of those problems in theory um I mean look there’s technology

Is a trade-off there are going to be new problems created by the technology as well of course um that’s why I think Community is so important that’s why being part of a community like Sovereign is so important to me I don’t want to be a victim of Elon musk’s AI robot army

And the only way we avoid that is by coming together and protecting you know having some way to have strength in numbers have strength in togetherness and as I ol ated individuals which is what a lot of us are right now we’re actually quite weak going back to those

Bitcoin Maxis you know the toxic people who don’t have any friends I know them well they’re they’re they’re quite weak they’re fragilized themselves you you rely we all rely on everyone for our food and health care and you know the education of our children and making sure there’s some you know ability for

Us to get on a plane you know you I I recently started to learn to fly because I want to be able to to do it myself but you know I’m my private plane is never going to take me as far as a jumbo jet right so we’re super reliant on other

People and I think if we Embrace that and combine it with like individual sovereignty we’re going to create a much better world so you’re not going to get a neuralink uh chip in your brain that’s going to give you free starlink internet and help you drive your Tesla with your

Brain and control your robot service I have starlink internet because I want to be of grid but but I’m not the only neuralink that I would work use is going to be open source look my my sort of two first two startups and what I studied at University was

Neuroscience um I’m and that was because like I had I you know I was way too early but I that was my vision I was like holy [ __ ] imagine being able to plug my brain into the internet um so I think that’s ultimately gonna happen as well but I’m never gonna

Stick Facebook or or or yeah or Tesla directly Zuckerberg’s uh in your brain when you’re sleeping telling you to uh check out his new Instagram ads yeah no that that’s not favorable you said something interesting you said that all technology comes with a trade-off is that true of Bitcoin as

Well yeah definitely I’ll tell you what the trade-off is the tradeoff is um we don’t have the ability to get rid of people we don’t like Bitcoin is for enemies so you know Russ invades Ukraine the US can say y we’re taking your $300 billion it doesn’t work

So I think the trade-off is small but we don’t have the ability to do that anymore we have to accept that um Bad actors out there and for individuals what that means is you need to be you have you need to take a lot more personal responsibility no

One’s going to secure your Bitcoin for you you have to do it yourself and that is a concept that a lot of us like think about all the people who get um screwed in you know scammy iOS and follow all links and yeah fishing links and those people suffer that’s trade-off and they

Suffer more than they need to impart because our society has forgotten how to live without guardrails right these people don’t know that they’re they’ve never been exposed the idea they’ve never even been exposed to the idea of self- sovereignty exactly so you know everything they’ve bought has been sort

Of regulated and wrapped in cell effect for them and now they’re finally exposed to an actual free market and they’re getting [ __ ] and that is really sad when is the last time that you think self- sovereignty was a even I won’t say a universal principle but even superficially understood by the masses

The concept if ever or is this the grand Awakening I think that the the the Age of Exploration um with um sort of uh the indust Industrial Revolution that that this this weird thing that zoom’s doing is screwed you see this is why I don’t

Want Zuckerberg in my brain um if I do a thumbs up will I get a thumb bubble that you just got you have a cool setting I don’t know I I you know if you if you just look at even not that long ago nine

Before World War I so a 100 years ago there were no passports there was um government’s expenditure instead of being 50 or 60% of GDP was 10% of GDP police were privatized firemen were privatized you paid a fee and and basically they would come and they would put out any fire

Because if you know this house burned down it would affect this house which belonged to someone who was paying the Fe but then they would charge you for it and you would get screwed so everyone sort of had like this insurance policy with firemen um churches took care of

Most welfare if you walk through the Streets of London like one in 20 buildings used to be an orphanage because there were a lot of Orphans and and private Civic societies were taking care of you know everything from Cradle to grave from being born to going to

School to being in a foster home to where you get buried and over time there’s been this creep of the government taking control but our grandparents remembered self- sovereignty is there a happy medium because that doesn’t sound that amazing for a lot of the population either is there I think it

Was I think it was amazing I think it was amazing not in comparison to where we are now because they didn’t have a lot of the Creature Comforts that we have that’s right I mean it was it was not amazing because they lacked the technological and scientific advanage

Exactly but if you compare that to how life was even 30 years before it was just like there’s never been progress like that in human history and so it was amazing like people were were astounded the world was so optimistic it’s part of the reason that World War I was such a

Shock to everyone one right like everything was going so well um I think it was amazing I think you would get it today again but way nicer right you would have um much better Creature Comforts much better uh Medical Science you wouldn’t be buying really expensive spices you’d be buying really expensive

Nfts and that’s got a lower carbon footprint like I think the we don’t know think about how many [ __ ] jobs there are and how much money is wasted in bureaucracy not just government bureaucracy all kinds right and and how um how much energy is wasted by people

In shitty social media you know just Doom scrolling we have so much potential that it’s currently untapped it’s tragic is this a natural long-term pendulum swing do you think because it’s like it feels like at this point in time with the rise of socialism populism Define it however you want that we are

Seeing people once again aware of the problems of government that perhaps they had blinders on to for decades right I mean or do you think it only go you obviously don’t believe it just goes in one direction that the government gets bigger bigger bigger bigger bigger and more powerful and that

Never ends right eventually people come with the uh torches and pitchforks in every single one of those societies so are we at torches and pitchforks or is Bitcoin giving us the ability to peacefully transition back with the s that that’s that’s what I think I think

We don’t ever get to the Torches and pitchforks I think people are just going to opt out and that’s the secret the secret is the fact that we have an alternative that people can just opt out in gives us not just more freedom and more opportunity but it means that the

Violence that could potentially have happened without Bitcoin doesn’t have to happen and probably won’t have you been to Al Salvador since they made Bitcoin legal tender I haven’t no Mei I keep meaning to go and something gets in my is that the happy medium a nation state

That adopts Bitcoin is that a stepping stone yeah I think that’s a stepping stone at best look I mean nation states are going to remain but but think about think about the difference between like El Salvador’s got a very energetic and seemingly intelligent um president who’s

Taken on a lot of dictatorial powers um but seems to be doing right now well with them will that last I don’t know if he stays in power too long it will probably get corrupted but it can work really well the other reason it can likely work well is because people in El

Salvador can relatively easily go elsewhere and because they’re trying to attract Talent so they have to stay good they have to stay competitive and I think that’s the key we need to get these jurisdictions to compete amongst themselves and the more we can get sort of um more and more jurisdictions even

Small ones like the city you know free zones that I’ve been talking about um available the more choices you get and then the more you’re empowered there’s two ways of thinking about political empowerment there’s voice and there’s exit and we almost always today think about voice because that’s what they

Want us to think about right your voice is you can vote or you can complain or you can protest but exit means ah you know see you guys I’m going over here I’m doing something different and it’s much more powerful because they can’t stop it and it’s definitive it’s

Interesting because I’m remembering that Bitcoin 2021 at Mana Winwood which was a massive [ __ ] show because twice as many people as could fit showed up was when they made that El Salvador announcement and that’s when I first met you in person sitting on a picnic page yeah

That’s rightside we had we had talked many times before but that was the first time that I think we actually met in person within a day of that El Salvador announcement that’s now almost three years and we haven’t seen any more announcements of the sort does it

Surprise you that El Salvador has been somewhat the only country now listen we have a lot of adoption people aren’t talking about Bitcoin mining and multiple countries like by the government and it’s happening but not in the same way it doesn’t surprise me at all I uh I was surprised that El

Salvador happened I I think it was it was a canary in the coal mine it was sort of like a a sign of things to come but it was too early and El Salvador could do it because El Salvador was had a very unique set of circumstances they

Used the dollar that’s the answer nobody could attack their currency yeah yeah um so I think we will see it I think the ETF brings it a lot closer and I wouldn’t be surprised this time around to see a couple of governments not saying they’re going to a Bitcoin

Standard but saying they’re adding it to their treasury reserves and that wouldn’t surprise me at all this this sort of cycle that’s the the central banks is the one that would not surprise me at all exactly like you said you just described that sort of the jumbo Jets

Full of gold we know that central banks are buying gold any they can get their hands on all over the world it’s not a big jump to bitcoin from there especially when you have black rock you know Larry FX of the world out there talking about it being a flight to

Quality and such you know I I think that’s probably oversold as a driver I think the nice thing about Bitcoin and everything that has happened up until now is that the individuals like the massive people are and will remain in the driver’s seat and they all of the

Large institutions are just sort of trying to catch up or keep up at best but it will be a very important signal and will give a lot of people confidence and it will just be another sign that this Bitcoin thing just is refusing to go away and just keeps growing and

Growing and growing it’s like a little it’s like someone it’s like Satoshi I think you know the genius of Satoshi is understated it’s just crazy how much it’s like a mythological figure but one of the most amazing things about Satoshi is that he created this little kernel of

Code and just sort of like threw it into the world and it contained within itself everything it needed needed to sort of self-replicate and just start swallowing everything around it it had its own marketing it’s had its own black hole built into it that is a level of Genius

It’s like I remember in 2013 I wrote an article in coindesk saying that um if I didn’t know better I would say that um that the internet became self-aware and after gorging itself on all of the porn it could get its hands on which was all of

It um it decided like what’s the next thing I need money okay I’ll just create it and it just sort of created this money and was like here guys take this because it’s clearly sort of it’s hard to look at this thing and not say wow this is the creation of a super

Intelligence but Jamie Diamond says that satachi as he pronounced it satachi is gonna come back from the grave or out of hiding and he’s just gonna make as many Bitcoins as he wants and there’s no fixed 21 million what do you say JD Diamond it’s a great Theory I can make

As many Bitcoin as I want I can Fork Bitcoin you know until the cows come home but no one’s going to give a [ __ ] and that’s the nice thing about consensus it’s really it really is based on what we want and what we believe in and that’s you know coming back to can

Black Rock Fork Bitcoin no we have rollups and we have greater decentralization in Bitcoin we have a lot of economic activity happening and being built in Bitcoin which we will deliver it becomes un forkable well we had Bitcoins to tell Vision that would be uh BBV bit Bitcoin block Black Rock

Vision right and I think it’ll end up going the same way anything I missed man anything you’re dying to mention uh before we go yeah I think um I would just say this I think what we’ve spoken about now has been like big picture and

It’s sort of what drives me on the dayto day what I care about is the actual progress that we’re making so I think everyone should check out the actual progress that we’re making cuz it’s GB smacking I’ve never seen Bitcoin move the way it’s moving now like the development ecosystem being built around

Bitcoin is just going to I think it’s going to shock people second I have to plug the project that I’ve been working on for three and a half years Sovereign I think has been at the Forefront of this both in terms of building the you know an truly decentralized Community

Managing to do everything as open source and you know with like the high level of integrity and building towards this Vision instead of building towards next year or in two years so definitely check that out because you can put your you can do things with your Bitcoin with

Sovereign that you can’t do anywhere else third I want to say it’s always so much fun to be I I I I love chatting with you and and we should do it more frequently I agree now it’s great that we now have spaces as a platform because

It’s so much easier to get together and talk to people dayto day as opposed to try to schedule this like Mammoth hour where Zoom is doing fireworks in the background so we’ll definitely uh keep in better touch I mean listen as a early believer in Sovereign I’m still holding

Every single token I ever had even the roller coaster where it was millions of dollars to thousands of dollars to everything in between because I want to be there you know for the entire ride so you know I I uh if I I can talk all day

About my support for something but Money Talks right yep yep it’s that’s true awesome money makes the world go around it does well thank you so much for the time everybody will put uh obviously your information in the description and more about Sovereign so that people can

Find it but always as you said a pleasure to have these conversations you uh you keep me grounded and you keep me inspired so it’s great I then I uh want to show up and talk about this stuff again for another uh day five times a

Day so thanks for that man thanks man thanks for having me Let let’s go