On September 18, 2007, the Fed made a 50bps rate cut, greater than expected, despite reasonably good economic data. Markets rallied for about 3 weeks, and SPX closed at an all-time high on October 9, 2007, which would not be matched again until March 2013 in recovery from the Great Financial Crisis.
On September 18, 2024, the Fed made a 50bps rate cut, greater than expected, despite reasonably good economic data. Markets rallied for about 3 weeks, and SPX closed at an all-time high today, October 9, 2024.
This is not financial advice nearly as much as it is anecdotal evidence that we live in the Matrix.
Other thoughts:
The Sahm rule stood at only 17bps as of the unemployment reading of September 2007, as opposed to 50bps in September 2024. Albeit, unemployment was generally higher right around 4.6-4.7% between late 2006-2007. Additionally, the part-time gig economy is MASSIVE today compared to 2007 (but BLS still counts that as not “unemployed”)
The VIX was hovering between 16-18 during the October 2007 market peak, compared to 20-22 today.
Year-over-year CPI change from December 2006 to December 2007 was 4.1%, so inflation was NOT dead when the Fed started their easing cycle. The bond market is implying a similar problem in today’s economy with increasing US treasury yields, although current YoY CPI readings are generally lower today than in 2007.
Unlike 2007, this is an election year, and I operate under the assumption that all current BLS statistics are not just cooked, but deep fried.
EDIT: Going to try to address some of the repeated comments I’m seeing here.
“PAST PERFORMANCE DOESN’T GUARANTEE FUTURE RESULTS”
Of course, the main point of this post was to highlight the similarities in timelines between today and 17 years ago. Our economic situation is MASSIVELY different, although I’d argue still weak.
“BUT THERE’S NO SUBPRIME CRISIS”
Right, probably not. However, we still have skyrocketing consumer credit defaults paired with an abysmally low personal savings rate. Additionally, we have something along the lines of $1 trillion CRE loans with balloon payments or adjustable rates kicking in within the next 6 months, on a bunch of loans that are underwater with their respective banks, and many of which have been collateralized into CLOs and sold both domestically and internationally. I still think there will be some blood in the water.
Additionally, the median house price to median income ratio is HIGHER today than it was at its 2007-2008 absolute peak, so I’d still argue that real estate has been over-speculated.
“THE GOVERNMENT WON’T LET THE MARKET CRASH DURING AN ELECTION YEAR”
Probably not! In fact, there’s a very real scenario where the Fed steps in with hyper-QE if things hit the fan. Congress is scheduled to meet in January 2025 to negotiate the current US debt ceiling, and the US frankly can’t afford a recession right now – they need those tax dollars. Hyperinflation to erode the real value of the US debt and prop up the markets is highly plausible IMO.
“DUMB BER”
Dumb bol.
“POSITIONS OR BAN”
I’m short term bullish on bonds. TLT just bounced off its 200 SMA twice and I wouldn’t be surprised to see investors eat up those nice high yields if earnings season goes sour. I have 6 figures on TLT calls expiring post-election, I’m gonna wait on SPX plays until the election is over.
TLDR: The Fed cut rates on the exact same date (9/18) in 2007 as 2024, and SPX hit an all-time high on the exact same date (10/9) in 2007 as 2024, except it was a massive crash afterwards in 2007. Trippy.
Posted by theperezident94
40 Comments
When people talk about the Sahm rule, are they using the original data or the much worse revised data that came out later? I only ask because the first time the “recession threshold” was crossed it was based on the original, but that was off by 800k, so wouldn’t we have crossed that even earlier?
Cool man. What’re you gonna do about it?
The Sham rule stood at nothing in 2007 as it didn’t exist yet it was created very recently my dude
you guys remember when FNMA was going to make us all rich? i remember.
![img](emote|t5_2th52|4640)🔫 ![img](emote|t5_2th52|4275)Put the fries on the bag now!
What about the housing situation in 2007 and now? IIRC housing was in a massive bubble with shit loans marked as AAA in 2007.
When you guys stop bearing bearish then I am gona short otherwise you are just being played
My observation which I made during a haircut today:
It’s Terget Circle Week! And Terget was dead, dead, dead last evening.
At least I scored some leftover terlit paper and paper twelling.
I had to explain both Tergit Circle Week and the weird Minnesota accent, cause my haircutter doesn’t watch TV.
This was brought on by my observation that the normally bustling salon in a wealthy midwestern city was oddly deserted at noon and nobody was getting Halloween Hair.
Of course, creates an uneasiness about Amazon. It means their Prime Week sales may go up, down, sideways, or all over the place.
indeed interesting. but it wasnt until sept 2008 that lehman brothers went down followed by other markets and banks.
what do you think is the thing (or things) that fall this time?
Appreciate the analysis, bought calls ![img](emote|t5_2th52|8882)
Major corrections coming after elections
https://preview.redd.it/owiv02llystd1.png?width=617&format=png&auto=webp&s=d30fd36030e9337ed2bca31848760d66e8a46a08
And that is why I try to occasionally buy SPY near ITM puts along with OTM far dated puts whenever I can.
I’m basically out of this market for a bit. I’m taking profit this damn time. This shits WAY too overheated. Imo
This time will be different… because we have the printing machine overflowing the market with money. And probably intervention units in some banks with unlimited supply of money to just buy everything if it drops below a limit. This time the crash will be whenever it’s supposed to be.
Puts on SPY? 👀
I think 90% of this sub needs to re-evaluate the people or news outlets they follow. There’s constantly headlines promoting fear and you all eat that shit up.
Bull markets can go on for years. Only 1 of those days will be the top – stop trying to predict when it’s happening. Also – I feel like I’m stating the obvious here, but rate cuts during a financial crisis shouldn’t be compared to rate cuts happening in very different circumstances.
I’m not arguing the point, but I’d like to point out a difference. In 2007, it was widely known that housing was a disaster and overbuilt. While there are issues with housing now, the problem is that it is under built now in many areas of the US.
They won’t let it crash before the election
Wtf..is this true? We are going down starting tomorrow?
Lol, People will never tire of predicting recessions. Since 2012, an article like this comes out every week. I guess one of them will eventually get it right if they just keep at it nonstop.
Just like predicting the return of Christ!
Post your position regard ber
https://preview.redd.it/yc3ze4dmhttd1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e8bef6c5aaa4155d1b53fcc51ea14605a6c41c7
https://preview.redd.it/vi5vy8cnhttd1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2871dae9058212566a86e4af32e0f24b335dcf02
Hold on a second, did you just write this entire post, but somehow NOT mention the subprime lending crisis??
That was not some vanilla economic contraction. It was the largest financial fraud in our lifetimes.
You’re expecting that to repeat?
(If you think you can use an inflation driven interest rate cycle to predict the next great financial fraud, well then you belong here.)
A correction would be nice. Shit’s too expensive now.
Sahm?
Stay at home mom rule?
I purchased 5000 shares of UVXY today.
You sound like my friend. Loves the weird charts and “same day” predictions. He eats mushrooms every morning and says it’s the key to freedom.
Last I knew he pissed away his kids college fund and his wife is leaving him.
So who will default and become contagious this round ? What would the trigger look like?
17 years ago, I was selling drugs. I laughed at people during the 2008 crash. Now I make magic internet money. Wouldn’t it be poetic for me to lose everything in the coming crash if OP is right?
Yes, it would.
Guys, does the fed meet on similar days throughout the year, every year?
Interesting take. We’ll just have to wait and see if you are right.
Thanks for the heads up. I’m gonna buy calls now
Very insightful write-up. Thank you.
I’m moving to Vietnam. $3.01 for a Big Mac.
Let’s not forget the absolute asshats on wall st and banking that made the great financial crisis a reality.
May they rot in the fires of hell.
Don’t they change stuff slightly on the second time around?
No sub prime crisis? Do you know about commercial real estate? It’s primed to cause issues
OP, take a look at this picture as well. It is pretty old and then we did not know about 0.5% rate cut and Oct 9 all time high.
https://imgur.com/a/VEetsDv