Western countries doing all they can to stop the free market
yapoyt on
“free markets” for me but not for thee
KentV2020 on
This is why Elon was so desperate to increase production in Germany a few months ago. Dude could see this from 10 miles away
KentV2020 on
What I really feel about the issue of Chinese EVs being brought en masse into Europe and North America is this; on the face value of everything, it looks like the EU, US have suddenly turned against their free market ideals of buying and selling, as the levies being imposed here are to fundamentally kill the idea of having Chinese cars on their roads before it can even take hold. What is being done here is potentially so extreme that people will look at the price of a BYD Dolphin or Xpeng 7 and think ‘fuck it, better off buying an ICE vehicle instead’.
It’s funny in a sense that all of these same EU and US leaders endorsing this kind of levy or tariff are the same ones shouting for people to drive greener cars, imposing hefty fines or surcharges for people who are holding onto their old diesels and petrols. Their problem now is that the ONLY country at the moment which can adequately supply the quantity of EVs needed to meet their climate targets is China. And it’s not just an EV thing, most other ‘green’ technologies like Lithium batteries and solar are 95%+ made in China, which then puts a lot of pressure on themselves to achieve their net Zero/decarbonisation goals. Whether Vietnam, Southeast Asia will be able to meet the demand for Eco-friendly technologies is yet to be seen in the face of rapid decoupling between China and the west.
But despite all this, trade with China is not entirely within the realm of ‘free trade’ as we like to think. At the end of the day, the Chinese government is an authoritarian, dictatorship body which has extensive or even exclusive control over what their domestic industries produce. Potentially, what the EU and US is trying to pre-empt here is the practice of market flooding, where the Chinese government sanctioned practice of unloading such a massive quantity of cheap product into the market results in domestic vehicle producers (Opel, Ford, Citroen etc) not being able to compete with the sheer number of cheap alternatives, causing their demise and tens of thousands of workers to go out of jobs. Then, in such a scenario it can be argued that China itself does not abide by the principles of free market trade, where the state gives unfair assistance to beat competition which is not afforded such a luxury.
SlapThatAce on
What is their goal / plan? Because VW, BMW and Mercedes have absolutely crap EV vehicles and have given up.
arkkarsen on
The faster the EU and US decouple from China, the better. No reason why EVs made in North America or Europe can’t be competitive.
submerdious on
“Brussels is pushing ahead with Chinese electric vehicle tariffs of up to 38 per cent, brushing aside German government warnings that the move risks starting a costly trade war with Beijing.”
That’s is an interesting take for Germany because they have a huge car manufacturing industry (quick google) that’s 5% of the GDP of Germany. Twice that of France and also employs up to a million people.
In my opinion it’s a good move to make the market for EV’s more competitive and bring/add jobs to the EU instead of only the end products.
BYD, for example, has affordable EV’s that feel luxurious (personal impression). If they could be assembled/made in the EU because the import tariffs are too high to be competitive could be a positive move. More jobs in the EU but also affordable cars, which in theory should compel traditional car companies to follow suit.
Also the thing with EV’s is that the whole industry of (ICE)car parts/garages will implode. Less maintenance and less parts. Manufacturing in the EU could in theory help relieve that (in time) shrinking industry.
Obvious-Purpose-5017 on
The US has also increased tariffs as well. Canada may consider this too since they just recently announced EV partnership with Honda and WV to produce cars in Canada. It’s meant to keep jobs within NA.
ballsoutofthebathtub on
Electric cars seem more like appliances tbh. Fewer moving parts, no major differences in performance. Essentially for the average driver, all an EV comes down to is the same electric skateboard with a different cabin on top. The tariffs seem like a pretty crude tool to buy the western manufacturers more time to become competitive.
The situation feels similar to the music industry end of the CD era. Massively overpriced CDs being sold while digital music and streaming was inevitable. Entry level cars often cost people’s entire yearly salary or above. It doesn’t seem sustainable.
11 Comments
RIP BYD NIO , LIauto … ?
Damn how good are these Chinese EVs?
Western countries doing all they can to stop the free market
“free markets” for me but not for thee
This is why Elon was so desperate to increase production in Germany a few months ago. Dude could see this from 10 miles away
What I really feel about the issue of Chinese EVs being brought en masse into Europe and North America is this; on the face value of everything, it looks like the EU, US have suddenly turned against their free market ideals of buying and selling, as the levies being imposed here are to fundamentally kill the idea of having Chinese cars on their roads before it can even take hold. What is being done here is potentially so extreme that people will look at the price of a BYD Dolphin or Xpeng 7 and think ‘fuck it, better off buying an ICE vehicle instead’.
It’s funny in a sense that all of these same EU and US leaders endorsing this kind of levy or tariff are the same ones shouting for people to drive greener cars, imposing hefty fines or surcharges for people who are holding onto their old diesels and petrols. Their problem now is that the ONLY country at the moment which can adequately supply the quantity of EVs needed to meet their climate targets is China. And it’s not just an EV thing, most other ‘green’ technologies like Lithium batteries and solar are 95%+ made in China, which then puts a lot of pressure on themselves to achieve their net Zero/decarbonisation goals. Whether Vietnam, Southeast Asia will be able to meet the demand for Eco-friendly technologies is yet to be seen in the face of rapid decoupling between China and the west.
But despite all this, trade with China is not entirely within the realm of ‘free trade’ as we like to think. At the end of the day, the Chinese government is an authoritarian, dictatorship body which has extensive or even exclusive control over what their domestic industries produce. Potentially, what the EU and US is trying to pre-empt here is the practice of market flooding, where the Chinese government sanctioned practice of unloading such a massive quantity of cheap product into the market results in domestic vehicle producers (Opel, Ford, Citroen etc) not being able to compete with the sheer number of cheap alternatives, causing their demise and tens of thousands of workers to go out of jobs. Then, in such a scenario it can be argued that China itself does not abide by the principles of free market trade, where the state gives unfair assistance to beat competition which is not afforded such a luxury.
What is their goal / plan? Because VW, BMW and Mercedes have absolutely crap EV vehicles and have given up.
The faster the EU and US decouple from China, the better. No reason why EVs made in North America or Europe can’t be competitive.
“Brussels is pushing ahead with Chinese electric vehicle tariffs of up to 38 per cent, brushing aside German government warnings that the move risks starting a costly trade war with Beijing.”
That’s is an interesting take for Germany because they have a huge car manufacturing industry (quick google) that’s 5% of the GDP of Germany. Twice that of France and also employs up to a million people.
In my opinion it’s a good move to make the market for EV’s more competitive and bring/add jobs to the EU instead of only the end products.
BYD, for example, has affordable EV’s that feel luxurious (personal impression). If they could be assembled/made in the EU because the import tariffs are too high to be competitive could be a positive move. More jobs in the EU but also affordable cars, which in theory should compel traditional car companies to follow suit.
Also the thing with EV’s is that the whole industry of (ICE)car parts/garages will implode. Less maintenance and less parts. Manufacturing in the EU could in theory help relieve that (in time) shrinking industry.
The US has also increased tariffs as well. Canada may consider this too since they just recently announced EV partnership with Honda and WV to produce cars in Canada. It’s meant to keep jobs within NA.
Electric cars seem more like appliances tbh. Fewer moving parts, no major differences in performance. Essentially for the average driver, all an EV comes down to is the same electric skateboard with a different cabin on top. The tariffs seem like a pretty crude tool to buy the western manufacturers more time to become competitive.
The situation feels similar to the music industry end of the CD era. Massively overpriced CDs being sold while digital music and streaming was inevitable. Entry level cars often cost people’s entire yearly salary or above. It doesn’t seem sustainable.
Jobs more important than the climate